How To Build A Vibrant, Inclusive Food System From The Ground Up
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
farm, Vermont, community, land, people, farmers, food, partnerships, center, Burlington, viability, agriculture, farming, support, dairy farm, build, work, share, space
SPEAKERS
Farmer D, Travis Marcotte
Farmer D:
Alright, this is Farmer D with the Citizen Farmers Podcast, Season 2 of reimagining communities. Today, my guest is Travis Marcotte of the Intervale Center. Travis, you've been at the intervale as the Executive Director for about 10 years.
Travis Marcotte:
Yeah, a little over 10 years.
Farmer D:
Amazing. And I'll just say the intervale Center has always been to me one of the like, most inspiring models for the country. And ironically, I'm sitting here actually, right now in my RV at Serenbe, you know, where I started the farm 20 years ago, and when I first started the farm here, Steve Nygren, the founder of Serenbe, said, I really want to create kind of an Intervale here at Serenbe. I don't know if you remember, I think I might have reached out to you. I mean, this was something like 2001 maybe it was before your time even. Yeah, it was 20 years ago. So I reached out to Intervale. And I you guys were so generous and sending kind of all your templates, and you know how you do the incubator. It was really awesome, you know, how supportive folks were over there. And to think 20 years ago, you guys are doing this work. So I'm super excited to dig in with you. And I enjoyed while I was on the road a couple months ago coming by and visiting you, and getting the tour. I remember one of your friends, your co-workers there actually helped find my wife and kids in the forest. And I think we ended up with one kid in a wheelbarrow.
Travis Marcotte:
We did.
Farmer D:
Yeah, that was brilliant. So I'd like to start out, you know, always kind of getting a little feel for what's going on in the season there. It's winter there in Vermont. So I'm assuming there's not much growing in the garden, maybe in some high tunnels. But what are you eating out of the root cellar these days?
Travis Marcotte:
Well, I mean, we're really lucky that the whole food economy in Vermont has grown so much, you know, since we started in 1988, here at the Intervale Center. So there's a ton of variety. I mean, the diversity right now is pretty amazing from you know, stored root crops. One of my favorites, of course, right now is the watermelon radish, which we all love to eat, because it's colorful and crunchy, and my kids love it. But you know, amazing apple varieties still in storage in Vermont. And then we've got just a slew of, of cheeses and meats, and value-added products. And you know that the interval center runs something called the Intervale Food Hub, you know, which is currently procuring from, you know, some 75 or so different farm and food producers around. So there's no lack of diversity in my refrigerator and storage at home. It's just amazing how far we've come in Vermont.
Farmer D:
It's so true. And when I was there, one of the things that was so inspiring and made us want to move to Burlington, other than the Intervale Center, honestly, having such an incredible place so close to town was just the vibrant food system there. It's incredible. I mean, the quality of products and the diversity of products, and the artisan farming and, and value-added processing that's going on in Vermont is just, it's phenomenal.
Travis Marcotte:
It's super exciting. I mean, there is a bunch of snow on the ground right now. So you know, this is the quiet period, you know, most of the activity here on our campus, you know, the Intervale Center manages some 350 acres, right in the City of Burlington. And so, you know, we actually have groomed cross country skiing right now. And so out my window, it's snowing. And I will see people pass by on their skis or walking their dogs. And so people are still engaging in the space and sort of soaking in what you know, all the farms look like in the middle of winter. So it's a special time, and I think farmers that are, most of the vegetable producers down here, planting season, you know, getting ready to maybe fire up some of the greenhouse activity. So it's a special time of year, but there's certainly no shortage of great things to eat.
Farmer D:
That's awesome. And, you know, I love winter seasons that, you know, I farmed in Wisconsin for many years, and I miss having those winters where you actually are forced, you know, under a blanket of snow, to cozy up by the fire with some seed catalogs and take a little break, you know. Farming in California for the last eight or so years, and there's just, there's no season really, it's just always, you're always growing, you're always you know, out there in the fields, there's no, there's nothing that forces you to do the winter thing. Like when you're in the northeast and the Midwest, they call the hygge type culture where... there are some interesting studies on happiness around living more in rhythm with the seasons and having that downtime is really valuable. You know, I think one of the things that I want to dig right into with the Intervale center because, you know, we think about the Intervale Center as a place for farming, but it's also a place for hiking and cross country skiing, and it's such an asset and it speaks so much to what I'm so passionate about and what this podcast is all about. Which is the value of preserving natural areas and agriculture close to where people are, right? I mean, that's, there's so much value in that. So I'd love to hear if you can tell the audience a little bit about, you know, what is the Intervale Center? What are the different programs and kind of elements of it? And then let's dig into that a little bit. And we'll get to the history a little later of how it kind of came to be.
Travis Marcotte:
Yeah, you know, I think the Intervale Center is a farm and food organization. And, you know, we're looking at a lot of things that you've talked about in your book, and on your website and podcast, you know, about how do you create a food system, you know, that really takes care of farmers and farmers can make a living and care for our land and water resources in ways that are regenerative and sustainable over the long haul? And how do we address some of these, you know, big problems that are impacting our communities, whether that's, you know, some of the hollowing out of rural areas, or food insecurity or food-related health issues, there's just there's a lot that I think can be accomplished by working in the realm that is food. And so the Intervale Center really takes a sort of a community approach to that, and looks at a food system space, like in this particular area, we're sort of thinking about Vermont, and how does the Intervale Center help Vermont, you know, generally have a really amazing food system that takes cares of farms, land, and people. We are also really unique, I think, as an organization in that a number of years ago, we started to reclaim land that had been, for generations, in food production. The Abenaki, you know, would come up the Winooski river into the Intervale, which is a valley along the Winooski River and harvest the salmon in the river and foods from the food bowl that is the Intervale. And then up through, you know, more modern times where you had dairy operations or market gardens near sort of urban areas like Burlington's downtown. And that kind of went into decline. And we started to revitalize the space 30 plus years ago, and so we're, we're unique in that we manage this campus for the community, you know, at large, and our focus is very much on farming and the generation of farmers for tomorrow, as well as conservation, and community engagement, you know, and so you'll hear me say a number of times when we talk about the interval center, farms, land and people, and those are essentially our three high-level goals, supporting viable farms, enhancing the land that sustains us and engaging people in the food system that feeds us all. So we have this very unique, you know, role to play as a big open space right in the middle of Vermont's most populated region. And so why not also have trails and cross country skiing and community gardens, and just any number of ways, people from school-age children through to people that want to just take a run after work. Why not engage them a little bit more in, in the the farming element? So when you walk through the Intervale, you get to literally, you know, walk through commercial farm operations, alongside a conservation tree nursery, see a farmer producing vegetables or flowers or medicinals, and then duck into, you know, an amazing, forested area along a great river in Vermont. So it's a special place that you can sort of build a lot of different, you know, positive activity on it.
Farmer D:
That vision you just shared, it's just such a beautiful, real vision. And when we do our designs masterplans for a lot of these big conservation, agrihood communities, we call it an ag meander. Now, we always think about, you know, what, what are those trails that connect the nodes of experiences connecting people to nature, to agriculture, and to each other? You know, and how do you kind of weave that and I found that so well balanced in the Intervale. You know, that your proximity to the city you can get right on the trail, whether you're on foot or in the snow on your, on your skis. You're able to experience the seasons and the changing rhythms of nature and agriculture, and be a part of it and be connected to it. And there's something in that that is just really grounding and healing. It's what I think we've lost a bit in our humanity is that connectedness because it's just not it's not the norm in society to be able to have those experiences on a regular basis. We're deprived of it. And so being able to provide that is such an incredible value that you're providing to that whole region. But curious, also, as you talk about this, you know, how is the land owned, and what's the structure of it? It's such a beautiful expression of a vision that's been, you know, 30 plus years in the making. I know, having talked to you, there's a million little details, right, to make that work. So, you know, maybe share a little bit of how it all fits together, and how it functions.
Travis Marcotte:
It is a great point. And sometimes they are and I always think of, like, you know, resist the list, because I can very quickly start listing off, you know, the various layers of the Intervale layers of programming. We're very entrepreneurial, we're very excited to, to say yes to things to try things on behalf of the community. But I think, you know, to your question about, like, how does the space work, how does the physical elements of the Intervale Center kind of take shape here and so the Intervale Center, as a 501c3 actually owns a bit of land here that's been conserved with the Vermont Land Trust, in perpetuity for agriculture, in service to the community. It was the last dairy farm, operating dairy farm, in the city limits of Burlington. Our offices are in the farmhouse, we've really restored many of the agricultural buildings at the farmstead, the old dairy barn, community barn that now is available for people to come for events or weddings, or food festivals, and then the farmland has been protected. And then we also rent land from neighboring landowners. And that sort of is how we've pieced together a contiguous parcel of land, that's about 350 acres right now. You know, the way it operates is to create a platform for a lot of valuable initiatives to happen. And so a big piece of that is renting land to farmers. So we host commercial farm operations, primarily vegetables and flowers, they do really well on the fertile soils that we have here, and the plot proximity to ready market, but we also have community gardens, very large community garden partnership with the City of Burlington Parks and Recreation Department. So they actually manage the people who you know, use the gardens and the plots and, and all that it's just it's on our land. We also support programs with New Americans and have some initiatives of our own, you know, that are really expressions of our interest in making sure everybody has access to food. And so through our gleaning, and Food Rescue programming, we've also set up some community farms that are, are smaller in nature, but where people can really just access the soil and the amazing things that you can grow on the soil from cherry tomatoes to herbs. And, you know, you can imagine a person who comes down participating in our fair share program, they come down, get some food that's been gleaned from farms around the region, we give that to them for free. But they can also hang out in our people's garden and kind of experience of a pick your own, you know, together with other people in the community, bring their kids down, bring their moms and dads and just spend some time. Those are the kinds of things that I think we're really lucky that we have this, this space, this platform where we can, we can build those, those elements, you know, and really engage our community a little bit more into the food system very clearly as that's our mission, but also in, in natural areas, just in community together. And so, I really enjoyed, you know, having that very tangible aspect of the interval center that we have this, this space that we get to not only steward but also think about, with our community, like how do we add more value like what do people what are people looking for in life these days? And how do we help with that?
Farmer D:
Amazing and you hit on so many aspects of what you do that I want to dig a little deeper into. One of them was you said this was the last dairy farm in the area. And it's been so interesting to see just in the last few years, last 10-15 years I've noticed this theme there are these last, foothold, farms that have unbelievable development pressure, because they're still close to the city. I mean, my last big project that I you know, where I live in Encinitas, that was the last farm left really in that region that was all robust agriculture. And it was because that 67 and a half acres in the middle of town, you know, across the street from the YMCA, you know, next door, the Botanic Garden, that property was only preserved because the city basically said in the community, so we don't want to lose the heritage of agriculture that define who we are as a city, because like, no in Encinitas, it was the Poinsettia, and that's where the poinsettias started, and that's their logo, and that was the farm, but that farm couldn't really be viable anymore. And the development value was so high that it you know, it just didn't make sense. So there's two themes here that I want to draw from one is, there are these precious gems left that are like threatened land all across this country where we have the last farm standing close to where people live. And it's such a unique and important opportunity to preserve those, but preserving it is not enough, right? Because then you need someone to steward it. And that's where like the Intervale Center and the Leichtag Foundation in the case of in Encinitas, you know, some organization, and community needs to step up, and, and do something with that land to make it meaningful to the community. And that's one aspect, I think that, you know, is just really important to to recognize, that is a fleeting moment that we have, as a society to identify those, those precious parcels, preserve them, and stand up or work with organizations that can that can steward them and make them meaningful to the community. That's something that the Intervale is a fantastic model for. The other thing that you mentioned, is partnerships. This is, I think one of the most important and most challenging aspects of this work is that it requires --you mentioned the Vermont Land Trust, you mentioned the City of Burlington, you mentioned a number of other, you know, partners, all the farms in the community and in the Intervale, I want to dig into this a little bit more, because partnerships are hard, right? I mean, the agreements and how partnerships are forged and how relationships are built and how collaboration happens. There's a lot that goes on in that. So I want to unpack that a little bit. And then the last thing that you hit on that I want to come back to is access. And you know, I think one of the things that's so inspiring about the intervale. And what you talked about with the peoples garden, and the fair share program, is that you've really prioritized and made it a real goal and a focus of the organization to make sure that this is not just something for people who can afford the higher cost local food, but that it's available, not only the food is available, but the opportunity to grow food and be a part of this community is available to everybody. I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about partnerships. And, you know, what you found has worked well, in forging these partnerships and being creative about how agreements and collaboration happens at the Intervale.
Travis Marcotte:
Yeah, it's it's a, it's a big piece of of the work that we do. And I think you're right partnerships are can be hard, they can, you know, be difficult to figure out, you know, what the best the best mechanisms are to put in place. And if we think about how powerful food can be as a lever for positive change, you know, I'm always thinking about, well, how do we make sure we have enough quality calories for everybody. You know, we have extreme hunger on our planet, we have distribution problems, etc. But like there is a food security component that we have to think about this on a planetary level. And next to that, how do we feed everybody? Well, while enhancing the natural resources that underpin the global food system and not degrade, which is what we have been doing. You know, and then you touched on it with access, like, when I think about partnerships, it's like, well, we're really after, like making sure everybody can engage in the food system. So I spend a lot of time just in our partnership sort of thing about like, are we feeling like we're on the same page about those very high-level goals and sort of that vision and values that we bring to the conversation. And then that I think helps ground us in, you know, okay, so why are we talking about, you know, whatever it is, you know, property taxes or land purchases or lease arrangements, because there's a lot of that involved in the way that we operate the Intervale. So I think that is like a key lesson. And I've enjoyed working with my team, you know, trying to figure out like, how do we become great partners. We don't, we don't win ever every partnership, you know, where it's like, wow, that didn't work out very well, or we didn't really, you know, get where we wanted to go. But I think if we're honest with ourselves about it, and keep that higher-level vision and set of goals in mind, that's really helpful.
Farmer D:
That's awesome. I think what you're saying to speak so much to how you build culture, too, right? Because, first of all, when you're when you're committed to a certain vision and values, that grounds it, and then when your goal is how do we become great partners? I mean, what a great goal, I mean, that just sets a culture of, you know, we want to, we want to be good partners, with people. And so that those are the kind of people I want to work with. And you know, what, one of the things that kind of blew my mind when I was out there, and we were looking at all the shared infrastructure, right? The shared cooler spaces, and the shared equipment, and the maintenance of that equipment and greenhouse spaces, all these shared spaces, and just my mind was kind of spinning around the complexity of how the social ecosystem works, for everyone to play together so nicely, and be able to figure out you know when you need it, and when I need it, and what do you pay for it? And what do I pay for? And how does, how do we take care of it? And, you know, like, what is it in that, that you find has-- To me, it seems like kind of what you just said, it's kind of like everybody's grounded and working together with that same cultural framework. Can you give an example or two of just like what you've seen, maybe work really well, or where you've learned how not to do it, and setting up some of these kinds of relationships for more shared economy out there that you do?
Travis Marcotte:
Yeah, and I think, you know, some of the things that also sort of underpin how this works is probably the entrepreneurial nature that also comes in. And so you know, when we're working with farmers, they're, they're running businesses. And so we need to be able to work in that framework and speak that language. And so, you know, what can the interval center do to support farm businesses, if they're essentially tenants on the land, you know, that we own? How do we think about lease tenure, and the time frame of leases, as you know, like building soil isn't something you do in one year, and getting to know your landscape and really understand how your farm is going to produce on land doesn't take six months or a year, it's a multi-year process. And so we think about those, those elements when we're building, you know, lease conversations with farmers, and what ultimately what will be put in those agreements, we have to really be careful that we understand that, you know, they're running businesses that are, are land-based, and are impacted by the vagaries of weather and pests and things like that. And so I think being steeped in that helps us be better in developing those partnerships with farmers. A pretty cool, specific example that you were talking about shared equipment, you know, a long time ago, the interval center managed most of the equipment and greenhouses, and then we would lease to the farmers. And so if something broke, there'd be a question back to the Intervale Center about that piece of equipment. And we, a number of years ago, decided it made sense to sort of innovate that model with farmers and come up with a way to own shared equipment. So we've essentially created a separate company, that's an equipment company that has a board of managers that includes farmers in the Intervale, includes staff from the Intervale Center, and it allowed all of us I think, to sort of bring the management responsibility of that much closer to the end beneficiary, in this case, the farmer and be able to buy equipment, manage equipment, and share equipment that would also allow producers to have access to a much greater diversity of tools to advance their business. So that was a model that, you know, in a project that I think was a great success and underscores, like how to evolve a partnership to something that really benefits you know, the beneficiaries.
Farmer D:
Right? That was one of the examples when you were telling me about how that evolved. That just, it was so inspiring. And I think one of the things that always attracted me to farming was just that desire to help each other, just like willingness within the farming community to look out for each other and collaborate and that cooperative nature kind of "cooperatician" that you see, especially in kind of people who share the values around how we're farming really was expressed beautifully and how that evolved. And, you know, I know, you know, part of the foundation of the Intervale Center right was it was the incubator model, which, you know, to your point about these leases and land tenure and thinking as nonprofit with the mission of helping to steward land and support farmers and their farm viability, engaging people in the food system, you know, one of the core programs that founded the intervale really seems like it was the incubator model. Because I know that evolved, it's now evolved more into a statewide initiative. Tell us a little bit about how that worked back when it was in its kind of prime, and then why you chose to kind of evolve the model.
Travis Marcotte:
Yeah, yeah, sort of the, to frame that a little bit: the whole idea of incubation, you know, for us is central in our, like, our DNA almost, it's sort of not just incubating farmers, but incubating ideas that can be really helpful as we think about those, those high-level goals around farms and land and people. So we're always experimenting with new enterprise ideas, you know, and we've managed composting operations, we started the largest compost operations in Vermont, you know, we run a food hub, we have a conservation nursery, as well as, you know, host of food access initiatives. And so the whole concept of incubating ideas that could be enterprises, or could be programs, you know, is, is really exciting for everyone here, and is sort of baked right into the organizational structure and ethos, the farm incubator, you know, was really pretty straightforward. And, you know, how do you create a space for farmers of tomorrow, right, that reduces the barriers to entry, so access to land, access to equipment, access to a supportive environment, where you can take risk, and be, you know, well supported. And, and that was something that, you know, as you said, was sort of foundational to the early days of the Intervale Center was providing that space for beginning farmers that had an idea, you know, and wanted to take it forward. And so we've had, you know, number of farms over the years, you know, come to the Intervale center, you know, with a business plan on the back of a napkin, that's like, you know, I want to start a, you know, a CSA operation, and this is the scale I'm thinking about. We've had farms, you know, come and say, I am looking to have a very small sort of high-value, highly diversified farm that serves restaurants and chefs. So we've been able to support the development of those farms, and then, you know, graduated dozens of farms out of the intervale space, and help them establish their farms somewhere else, usually in Vermont, often in a partnership with a conservation organization like Vermont Land Trust, you know, and it is a great, great model to like, help people build their skills and capacity, and then translate that to usually a larger farm base somewhere else in the state and sort of set up shop for the long haul. So that, you know, was a was a highly successful element of our work. And a number of years ago, we decided that it would make sense for us to double down on that, but instead of just focusing on, you know, sort of growing up a handful of businesses on our campus, we would bring essentially, the skills and the capacity to emerging farms and existing farms all over the state of Vermont. You know, so flash forward to 2020, we worked with about 110 farms across the state of Vermont, providing one on one business development and technical support. And that can include, you know, something like helping a farm, you know, let's say a young couple is leasing a small piece of land somewhere and is interested in buying a farm, we help them develop the business plan, access capital work with, let's say, like a land trust that is looking to transition, you know, a farm from an older generation into the farm of tomorrow, we can help through that whole process and work very closely with that farm, as they sort of get a foothold in Vermont. Or it could be that, you know, we had a lot of farms last year because of COVID that had to figure out how to pivot and shift a little bit. And so we had farms that you know, needed help putting together targeted business plans for you know, moving marketing online or imagining a farm stand, you know, on their farm where they could aggregate products from other farms and sort of, you know, work together and community to sell directly to consumers in order to just continue to refine the business model. And so, we're now really incubating but I would say also really supporting the business development aspects of farms at a very different scale and working, you know, in partnership with a number of organizations across the state of Vermont, to essentially, you know, make sure that those gems those farms that you mentioned earlier, but also just the working landscape that is so distinct in Vermont, and the Northeast, like we, we as a state really want to, you know, have that on our countryside, you know, diversified mix of farms and forest operations in every community in Vermont.
Farmer D:
So amazing what a great service you guys are providing. I'm curious, how does that work funded? Right. So like, there's a state support that at a certain level, is it philanthropy, do the farmers pay? I mean, how are you able to provide that much technical support to so many farms, you know, as a relatively small nonprofit?
Travis Marcotte:
Yeah, it's a good question. And I'll try not to go too far into the weeds. Vermont is, I think, really, on the forefront thinking about farm viability. And so a number of years ago, we created something in a state called the Vermont farm and forest viability program. And it's just that it's state funding through the Vermont housing and Conservation Board, which is essentially supporting affordable housing in Vermont, as well as land conservation. The viability element is nestled very nicely in their conservation work, so the Intervale center, and a handful of other partners essentially operate under a service provider contract with the Vermont Housing Conservation Board to do a certain number of business development projects every year. And so that's a foundational element that creates a network in Vermont, a very strong partnership across organizations, sort of a backbone organization where, you know, all of my staff can receive professional development, where other organizations come to the table, and share ideas. So that foundational element then allows us to seek other funding that we can bring to the table. And so that could be through philanthropy that could be through federal programming. All of what we do is, is essentially free to the farmers. So all of our programming is delivered at no cost to the participating farms, minus a small application fee for the Vermont Farm and Forest Viability program. So you know, the other piece of the puzzle that's really exciting is it's not just our staff that is really out working out in the field, in the barn or at the kitchen table, but also a group of specific consultants that we can bring in so we'd have resources to hire consultants, that could be anything from, you know, working on the bookkeeping systems to agronomic practices to market development initiatives, so that that really helps us meet farmers where they are, and bring the right the right sets of services to the table.
Farmer D:
It's so obvious to me yet, it's so unfortunate that this isn't the case all over the country. You know, I look at like the Farm Bill, right, and the allocation of Farm Bill, you know, subsidies, tax dollars have been really funding the destructive type of agriculture that is leading to environmental degradation, degradation of soils and the pollution of water and air, and ultimately, really negatively impacting the health of people on this planet. We've got this kind of just vicious cycle that we've been in, of subsidizing the type of agriculture primarily, that is not good for people or the planet. And what you're sharing as an example, just in little Vermont, and I know Pennsylvania has some similar awesome initiatives where, you know, they're starting to just at a state level, at least, one, connect the dots between like things like land conservation and affordable housing and food access and farm viability, but you know, helping to create the environment that is not only conducive to better communities, healthier communities, also healthier ecosystems and healthier ecology, and how can we not be doing this? It's just crazy to me that, that this isn't more mainstream, and that what you're modeling there, between all these partnerships and these funding mechanisms, to ultimately support the farmers who grow our food and take care of the earth, the way that we need to be the stewards that we desperately need, who as a CSA farmer myself for 25 years, I know how hard it is to make it work. I mean, it's almost impossible. And look, this is an optimistic and hopeful example but the reality is many of the farms you're talking about are coming to you because they're struggling. A lot of the farms that are aging out that don't have the next generation to pass their farm on to, you know, we talked earlier about the farms that are facing development pressure, and the kind of almost can't afford not to sell out. So it's just it's so encouraging, and I feel like it's so important that more people understand this model and what you've built there in Vermont, both within the Intervale Center, but more broadly, what what's happening there. It's really important.
Travis Marcotte:
I think it is, and I think I think you've captured it really well. I mean, what it really is exciting for me, right, and sort of, you know, helps me wake up every morning, pretty jazzed about all of this work is that we were able, in the Intervale, to sort of take up space that had been, I would say, you know, neglected, and kind of have a vision for that particular space, that can be something different and provide a whole lot more value to the community. And we removed junk cars from the Intervale, we restored soils, in the Intervale, we fixed up amazing historical buildings, and I've been trying to celebrate the value of this over not just 30 years, but 1000s of years and share that with the community. And people have responded incredibly well, right. So we've been able to successfully kind of imagine a new campus in the interval, a new use of 350 acres that really brings great value to the community. And now we're imagining, you know, the Vermont landscape and sort of thinking about, how does this space look in, you know, the next 20, 30, 50 years. And I think people are really responding very positively to that. And just yesterday, I was on a call, really talking more about a regional or a national sort of vision. And so this farm viability network that we have in Vermont has over the years helped establish the National Farm Viability conference. We're now looking at something that's really around an agricultural viability alliance, sort of in the northeast, that allows us to think about how do we build a pipeline of really talented on farm business advisors because it takes a special skill set to do that. How do we help share best practices? How do we advocate for funding at the national level? So I, you know, it's a long, it's a long game, for sure. But I can look back at the power of the transformation that we've had in the Intervale. And we're not anywhere near done. But we've been able to do quite a bit in the in the 30 years, we've been here. And so it gives me a lot of hope that, you know, let's say another 30 years, what does the Northeast feel and look like if we can be successful?
Farmer D:
Yeah, and hopefully the country, right, and even the world. What you talked about there with this ag viability alliance, is really interesting, you know, some of my past work with the Urban Land Institute, and the Agrihood Study, cultivating best practices report and the work that we did, my kind of reason for initiating that in partnership with ULI was actually inspired by some work that we did at the at Leichtag Foundation with the Jewish farming community, where we did a fueled building initiative that we piloted and launched to bring all the Jewish community farms around the world, mostly in the US, but a few international, together to do exactly what you talked about: like share best practices, you know, advocate and brand and market the concept, you know, help develop a pipeline of talent, you know, develop curriculum and shared resources. And, you know, through that work, which is the Jewish community farming field-building initiative that we did, I became more familiar with this concept of field building. But there's like a framework, a strong framework for field-building that has been used for, you know, for a lot of other fields. But I think what you're talking about what I've noticed, and kind of some of the work that we did with the agrihood work was that because even though you're not an agrihood, there's so many amazing, important lessons and best practices that have developed at the Intervale that are extremely valuable to this growing field of community farms and neighborhoods. So it feels like to me what I've been really interested in, and I'm excited to hear that this ag viability Alliance is developing, is we need a fuel building initiative for community farming that really looks at these intersections of food with land stewardship, with food access and food security, with affordable housing, with, you know, economic development, addressing, you know, issues of climate change. So, you know, I really, I'm excited to hear that. You guys have been spinning out some amazing talent out of that place, which we need. We need a lot more people who have hands on experience with this stuff. And yeah, maybe a good way to end this awesome interview, I really appreciate your time travel has been so interesting, and there's so much, there's so much more I could dig into with you, but I want to make sure to talk a little bit about your background. You know, you talked about kind of that this inspires you to get up every day and go do the work. Clearly, you have a deep passion for it. Where did that come from? How did you get on this journey?
Travis Marcotte:
Well, it's it's funny you asked, I was actually just this morning, I was sharing with one of my colleagues here, at the Intervale Center, I where I grew up. I grew up on a dairy farm. It was my, my mom's family and my grandparents bought the farm in 1939. And it was here in Vermont. So I was lucky enough to grow up on the farm. Most of the cows were gone by the time I was old enough to drive tractors. So I helped with, we put up a lot of hay off the farm, but there were no animals, and so is it a hay farm. You know, my grandfather taught me to drive the tractor, you know, collect getting firewood in the winter. And, you know, I just remember the stories he would his whole teaching approach was was pretty quiet, he didn't talk a whole lot. But he would drive the tractor into the woods. And then he would park it and then go cut firewood a few 100 yards away, and invite me to back the tractor and the wagon over to where he was inside, you know, 30 minutes, back and forth, back and forth, trying to dodge trees and back a wagon into the woods. And so that's that's where it sort of is all grounded, I think is growing up around, you know, aunts and uncles and grandparents and cousins and folks coming together around work, you know. So like, putting up several 1000 hay bales usually ended in some good food and maybe a swim in the lake, you know, and some conversation. And so there was a lot of just good memories there for me. Eventually, and my dad's family as well had a dairy farm on the other side of town. And my uncle had another dairy farm in town. So we have three dairy farms in you know, our town here in Vermont where I grew up. Then I you know, I really got into food and actually spent quite a bit of time working in restaurants. I love cooking food. I love serving food I like you know how people come together around food is just a great vehicle for community for fun for conversation. And I was really putting those pieces together and thinking about more of a professional career in business development related to food and the intersection of food and agriculture. And I was still pretty young, and I was in college, and I started really delving deep into the economics of food, and really looking at Agricultural Economics, community development, international development, and ultimately spent quite a bit of time overseas, working in sort of poverty alleviation through agricultural development in parts of Central American and the Caribbean. And so I was able to sort of put that economic development sustainability piece together with the really amazing passion and fond memories of growing up on a farm with my love of food generally. And so I have the greatest job in the world, where I am around farmers, I'm on a farm, we host some amazing food related activity here. But we're also really transforming the working landscape and using kind of a Community Economic Development lens to do that. So I don't know how you could get any luckier than that. It's sort of amazing that I've been able to put all those pieces together. And we have this unique organization, the Intervale Center that allows me to, to carry the work forward.
Farmer D:
Well, I would say you're definitely lucky and so are they to have found someone like you to help steer the ship over there. And I'm definitely really excited to continue our collaboration. And you know, there's just there's a lot for people to learn. How can people find out more about the Intevale, get involved? I know you guys offer some consulting, tell our audience a bit more how they can learn more about getting involved in the Intervale.
Travis Marcotte:
Yeah, I mean, the best way is to go to our website intervale.org and then you know if there are specific questions and things people want to learn about, there's some access points on the internet to connect with, you know, me or staff here. If you're ever in the northeast or in Vermont, we love for people to come by. A big part of of our community engagement strategy is events through the, you know, the warmer seasons. And so there's often some way to come down and have some food and explore, explore the whole campus. So we encourage people to come here and visit. It's a dynamic busy space in the summer months. But now, as we've really invested in sort of the winter community engagement, it's really a year round space. And so those are, those are some great ways to connect into what we're doing.
Farmer D:
And if you're as lucky as I am, you might even get a wheelbarrow to haul your kids around the farm.
Travis Marcotte:
We do aim to please, and so yes, I remember that one. Duncan was helpful grabbing that art to help move people around. That was super fun. And it is sort of the way we are, you know, we're part of this community too. And so it was super fun to have you and your family come and join us. It's a great space for bringing families together.
Farmer D:
Yeah, I'm excited to get back up there in the summer. And hopefully the celebrations the-- what is it the summer fest?
Travis Marcotte:
Yes. Summervale. So Summervale, you know, in a normal year would run about nine different nights, Thursday nights through the peak summer months, and we have live music and food vendors and activities for families and kids. And, you know, we may have 500 people to 1400 people, each of those nights. It's just a really fantastic way to come down and get some amazing Vermont food. And just sort of experience your neighbors and catch up, and maybe even take a walk through the whole Intervale. So yeah, summer is a great time around here.
Farmer D:
Yeah, I'm looking forward to coming back up there in the summer, and just really, really excited to be able to share a little bit about the Intervale with our audience, and I'm really passionate about this as an example, a really good example of what's possible, when you can preserve farms and, and natural areas and support farmers and build community, you know, by connecting them to the land to their farmers and to each other, and doing it in a way that, you know, honors the history of place, and the culture of place. And, you know, with such positive intention and such strong values and such humility, and at the same time, you know, the the idea that you're not stopping there. You're saying, how do we take this and kind of apply it to the whole Vermont landscape, and hopefully, to the American landscape. I think one of the things that Vermont has done really well is preserve some of that agrarian lifestyle. And, you know, and I feel like there's, there's a nice movement afoot where people are getting it, and starting to appreciate it. I know, you know, we were looking at moving to Vermont, a lot of people are moving to Vermont, you know, and so it's interesting, you know, that from a real estate perspective, you know, we always talk about historically, you know, houses along the edges of parks and green spaces and golf courses, and now farms have a lot more value. And I just, I think a place like the intervale provides a certain level of value to a community like Burlington, that is that cities and counties need to be looking at, and really investing in and understanding how important that is for quality of life, and retention and health. And so I'm just so excited to, to be a part of it and be able to celebrate it here in the small way with you today. I really appreciate you taking the time, Travis.
Travis Marcotte:
it was a real pleasure, it's always good to, to chat with you, Daron and kind of think about not only the power of what we're doing in these various spaces, whether Agrihoods or places like the Intervale or preserving these gems across the country, but also sort of how that can influence partnerships and all the way through to some things like policy shifts around how do we support the you know, deeper development of farms and all the value that farming landscapes can bring, whether that's from you know, food to ecosystem function to community, you know, there's just a lot there. And I think as a, as a country, we want to really understand that more and support that I feel pretty hopeful that there has been some some shift. And people are understanding that farms, you know, can serve as land stewards, they also serve as leaders in their communities. And if we don't support that working landscape, you know what we're missing some really great opportunities.
Farmer D:
So well said and, you know, this is the Citizen Farmers Podcast. And I think, not intentionally, but there has been a thread that has been weaving its way through the last several interviews, that comes back to that such, you know, important aspect of this work, which is we have to pay attention to policies. And we have to push policies in the direction that are going to allow the kinds of farms and communities that we want to see in the world be successful and thrive. And I think, you know, we can do our little bits and pieces here and there, you know, and it's important to build from the ground up, but we really do need to be working at that higher level. And this was another kind of reinforcing inspiration for me along the citizen farmers front to really focus on that. So let's let's continue that conversation and figure out how we can bring this community closer together to build this movement to influence policy and start to reimagine communities where farms and natural areas and people can all thrive together. That's what it's all about.
Travis Marcotte:
I love it. I look forward to doing that with you.
Farmer D:
You too Travis. Enjoy the snow, get out there and get some skiing in and I look forward to being in touch. Thanks again.
Travis Marcotte:
Yes, thank you so much and have a great, great afternoon down there.
Farmer D:
I will do.
Travis Marcotte:
All right. Bye Bye.
Farmer D:
Take care.