Reimagining retirement and cultivating regenerative communities with Chip Conley
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, MEA, life, community, farm, wellness, create, hospitality, years, baja, world, regenerative, cohort, wisdom, place, garden, diversity
SPEAKERS
Farmer D, Chip Conley
Farmer D:
Okay, this is Farmer D with the Citizen Farmers Podcast season two. Today, I'm with my dear friend, client and collaborator, the one and only Chip Conley. Hey, Chip.
Chip Conley:
Hello, Farmer D. It's good to be with you.
Farmer D:
So good to be spending some time with you. I thought it'd be fun if we started this episode, Modern Elder style, and have you kind of opened us up with a little mindfulness?
Chip Conley:
Sure. Well, why don't we start by just I mean, what mindfulness does for us, for those who aren't that familiar with it, is allows us to take us out of our mind, and to actually see ourselves as part of something bigger. So why don't we start by just closing our eyes and sensing our seat, wherever we're sitting, sit up right a little bit, because it allows the energy to shoot up your spine and through your head, up into the heavens beyond your scalp. And then just breathe, just breathe. One, slow breath, just breathe in, hold it at the top. And let it go. As you let it go, just the shoulders drop. Let's do it again. Practice makes perfect. Breathe in. Hold it. Let's do one more this time, breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth, if you didn't do that the first time. Hold it. Keep your eyes closed. Just sence everything around you, we are so defined by our vision. Yet, we have four other senses and maybe a fifth other senses if you talked about the Sixth Sense: our intuition. And as we just sit here, and listen, take in our mouth, the air and taste that. Just imagine what life would be like if we didn't have our eyes. Have to be reliant on all those other senses. So now let's come back. And back in the room with Farmer D and me, I'm going to suggest we flutter our eyes open very slowly to one last breath with our eyes open, full breath in through the nose. Hold it, and out through the mouth and shoulders dropping. And let's now have a great almost hour together.
Farmer D:
Thank you Chip. I love that. You know it's so funny. I'm sitting here in my RV. And I hear this noise. It sounds like rain but it's not raining. And I look up. You know when you when you start to do this kind of mindfulness work you become much more attuned to what's going on, the sounds around you. And I noticed this woodpecker is literally right in front of me on the sign just pecking away. So my friend, the woodpecker decided to come hang out.
Chip Conley :
We have woodpeckers here too. We have woodpeckers, right, they'd go upstairs and they do the woodpecker on like metal poles. This is like, what are you doing? Ouch!
Farmer D :
I'm sure there's some kind of lesson we can learn in that. It's funny. It reminded me Actually, when I was at Modern Elder Academy with you on the last night with the Paul Hawken retreat. And you were having that big fundraiser for Pescadero for the for the burning of the trash, just get people to stop burning trash and, and we all, remember, we all gathered under that beautiful moon and the sound of the ocean and I did the shma which is which is the shhh....mmmmm....ahhhh. You know, as we quiet ourselves and we realize how much is going on around us that we're not paying attention to. We soak that up and it really creates that awe which takes me back to the first retreat I did with you when I had the amazing opportunity to learn from Dacher about awe. Oh my god, that was so inspiring
Chip Conley:
Dacher Keltner, for those who don't know, I'm started the Greater Good Science Center at UC Berkeley. He's a professor there. He's one of the world's leading experts, if not the leading expert on the subject of how to cultivate awe in your life, A-W-E. He, and he lives part time here in Baja in Pescadero, where our MEA Academy is and I say, I like to say that when the world's leading expert in awe is your neighbor, you know you're living in the right location.
Farmer D :
That is true and I've been there enough times to testify. It is a magical place and I'm curious to hear what's growing in the Modern Elder garden these days that you're that you're enjoying. What's coming out of the garden?
Chip Conley:
Well, we have our, Farmer D helped us create an Elder Garden that is full of everything that we want in our salads. So lots of greens, a lot of arugula and different kinds of lettuce lechuga. We don't have any strawberries there right now. I'm looking forward to getting some strawberries in the garden soon. But what else do we have? We have carrots, we have zucchini, we have peppers, poblano peppers, we have basil. So Pescadero is like world famous for its basil. And so all of that's right there in the garden. So Tony, our chef can go out there and just pick whatever his heart desires and go straight back to the kitchen. It's uh, it's the way life should be right.
Farmer D:
Absolutely. I'm jealous that you got zucchinis in January. February Yeah,
Chip Conley:
Yeah. Well, I don't know... I don't even know if they're out there right now. But we do have zucchinis there. I don't know if they're here. I mean, you know, our, our February is not like most people's February.
Farmer D:
Right? You guys are like, what's the temp out there this week?
Chip Conley:
So you know, it's actually sort of moderate this week. It's about 75 warmth, and 55 is the cold. So it's sort of that range right now, this time of year.
Farmer D:
So I'm going to give a little context to you and I's background. Right. So you and I met when we were working together on a big agri hood project there in Todos Santos correct. Which is an interesting case study. Maybe we'll have a few minutes to talk about some of the lessons we learned in there. But we got a chance to, to work together and start visioning kind of a farm based community with hospitality and all these amazing ideas and working with the community. And that's where our kind of our friendship started. And then I was shocked when you generously invited Steph and I to your 55th birthday bash. And honestly, that was like the best date week, right? It was like a four day date. It was the first time Steph and I got away from the kids and about five years. And I just remember like having one of the best weekend's of our life and remembering that we do still know how to party. I think it was Michael Franti that got us jumping in the pool with her clothes on.
Chip Conley:
Michael Franti with all of us jumping in the pool with our white clothes was just, a gas. Fortunately, no one got electrocuted. I mean, he had the you know, he had an electric guitar his did his you know, Jay has his his guitarist. Yeah, that it all worked out. Okay.
Farmer D:
Oh, it was amazing. I'm so grateful that we were still like, we go back to that and unfortunately we were ready and excited to go to you 60th at Esalen this past year so yes, sad to miss that and and then you know more recently I've had the great privilege of being able to you know, attend two Modern Elder Academy retreats now and work with you on the garden and Baja Sage and the ne agrihood project right there and down the road.
Chip Conley:
That's right.
Farmer D:
So I'd love to start off by you sharing a bit Chip of like what well first of all, why did you decide to make Pescadero you know, your home personally and enter the modern elder Academy.
Chip Conley:
So you know, I grew up in Southern California. So when I thought of Baja California I thought of Tijuana and Ensenada. And, and I didn't really ever really think of the bottom half of the of the Baja Peninsula, which is Baja California Sur, which is where Cabo San Lucas is. We're an hour north of Cabo San Lucas. What I was most struck by the first time I came here nine years ago, was by the healthy ecosystem, it felt. You know, it had, there are very few places in the world that have the following five things all in the same area: ocean, desert, farmland, tropical and mountains. In all of those systems, all of those ecosystems are there like a frappe a because depending upon whether you're in Pescadero, which has a lot of farmland, or in Cerritos, which has a lot of desert, or in to Todos Santos, which just north of it has a lot of tropical, it you know, you have a lot of different choices here. And that means we have a real biodiversity of produce as well as bird life and animal life. And so, I will tell you it's not a place that I initially looked at and said, Oh my god, I, you know, I've been to Bali many, like 13 times, and I fell in love with Bali. And it was so obvious why I love Bali, it was so obvious why I loved, San Miguel de Allende when I came there. This is a place that it had to sneak up on me. And it was like, serendipity had to have her way with me over the course of my first two or three visits. And each time I was there, I felt a little bit more like, wow, this is a very powerful place, and quite spacious in the way I dream when I'm here too. So that's what led me to buying a home here. And then as I was writing a book, so I worked for, you know, for for those who don't know, me, I worked for, I actually created a company called Joie de Vivre, a boutique hotel company that became the second largest in the United States, and then sold it and joined the founders of Airbnb eight years ago, to help them take their little, little startup and stear the rocket ship with them. And four years into full time work with them, I moved to just being a strategic advisor, which is when I moved down here to write my book, and it was in writing my book at this home I had that I'd renovated on the beach in pescadero, that I had this epiphany one day or a Baja-Aha, my Baja-Aha was that: Why is it that we don't have a midlife wisdom school in the world? A place where people in midlife, try to actually explore how to cultivate and harvest the wisdom that they've learned based upon their experience in the world and repurpose it in new ways. And, and also help people navigate their transitions of midlife and maybe even shift their mindset on aging. And so that's what we created and launched in early 2018, and now have had almost 1000 alums come through here and from 24 countries.
Farmer D:
Wow. Wow. And I can be, you know, a personal testimony to how powerful the program is. Because when you so generously invited me to come and do it, you and Jeff said, Hey, D, why don't you just come down here and do the week and get a feel for what we're trying to do here before you start advising on gardens and farms and communities? And, you know, one thing that's interesting also about about that area, is that it's the Tropic of Cancer, right?
Chip Conley:
Yes. Yeah. We are right on the cusp. Exactly. Just north of us is Todos Santos and about six miles. And the Tropic of Cancer is in between Todos Santos just to the north of us and Pescadero. So, So interestingly, Todos Santos is, is not tropical, because it is north of the tropics, Tropic of Cancer line, and we are tropical. So it's it doesn't really matter. You know, land doesn't know the difference. But it is fascinating to be in a- right at the Tropic of Cancer and right there on the northern edge of what is considered the tropics.
Farmer D:
But you know, it's interesting, one of my mentors who passed away this year Hugh Lovel, biodynamic legend, he had five planets in cancer. I also have my- I'm a new moon cancer. I was born on a new moon, and a cancer, moon and cancer son, I have a lot of cancer. And he told me years ago, 20 years ago, 25 years ago, he said, you know, you should really live on the Tropic of Cancer. Because it's a it's a power meridian for us cancerians...
Chip Conley:
Oh, yes, of course. I'll never forget that.
Chip Conley:
Oh, my gosh
Farmer D:
I know and you know, when I've come down there, every time I've come down there, I've always felt this kind of energy. And it's potent, you know, and it's a power. It's one of those just kind of powerful places set with the mountains and the ocean. And in between, as you mentioned, this dynamic ecosystem of rich agricultural land with this, like, interesting. What do they call it there the temperate desert, right? Because it greens, kind of a unique type of desert, the greens up abundantly when it rains, and it just dries up. But yeah, I think, you know, to your point, I mean, I was at a really interesting inflection point, when I left my previous position, at leichtag foundation in coastal roots farm and I was transitioning back on my own, when I first got the opportunity to come to MEA. And I thought I was just gonna go down there and have kind of a cool, kind of, like, look at what's going on and get a feel for what you're trying to do. And so I could try to like, integrate it into my work with you. But what really came out of it on top of that was a total transformation for me. I think you remember I had my yearning and earning epiphany. That was juicy. Just you know, basically realizing that putting the why we do things at the front of the line in front of doing things for earning money and making a living and recalibrating that impulse to make sure that I was keeping the why at the forefront, the passion driving the bus and it's been really profound, Chip. I mean, even just in the I guess it's been almost two years. And it's really helped me get get more on the path that I'm most kind of called to. And I remember when I spent that first time with you and Jeff and Christine talking about, you know, why are you wanting to do in Agra hood? You shared a couple of interesting reasons. And do you remember what they were? What was kind of your inspiration for thinking about doing development down there and farm based development?
Chip Conley:
Well, for me, for me, it has been, and I think I said this to you, but you know, tell me if it was different. I am very cognizant of the fact that by having the Modern Elder Academy or and having 1000 people come here over the past three years, and having people fall in love with the place, we are creating demand for people to live here and vacation here, which is, in some ways, quite good for the local economy. But it actually put some stress on the local Agra economy, the farming economy, because there's a growing desire and need for homes, and especially gringo homes. And, and you know, gringo homes can can be sold for a lot of money sometimes, and therefore, we put the farming ecosystem at risk, especially when the youngest generation isn't as interested as being, you know, their parents who have been farmers. So, you know, one of my premises about what we were doing down here is how do we create SPF: save pescadero farmland? So that was my- is that the answer you remember?
Farmer D:
Yes. And that was so you know, inspired by that, because we see this trend happening all over the place where development pressure pushes ag land out of out of production, and then you end up with also poor planning. So you have a bunch of, you know, houses kind of just popping up all over the place, fragmenting the rural character and the farming. And to your point, it pushes the prices up to where farming is no longer viable on that land, and you've kind of lost it forever. And I remember you're, you're just one of the things that you said to me that you really were attracted to this area was because of the rural character, all the agriculture around you, you didn't want to see it go away. And so But you knew development was going to come. So how do we do development that can help preserve the agriculture at the same time? But also, a lot of the agriculture down there is very heavy chemical use. And yeah, and a lot of plastic and, you know, so how could we also sort of move the type of farming that's happening there to be more imbalanced with the ecosystem, the water, not using as many chemicals, maybe growing more food for the local communities and not all export? So there's a lot there's a lot in that. And, you know, I think one of the things that really got me very excited about this, and it pushes on the big button of what's happening all over the world, which is these wonderful little rural communities with rich farming and ecosystems attract people because people want to live there. But without good planning, to preserve that agriculture and do development in a very mindful way. Very quickly, you've lost that. And it's just another, you know, kind of overpriced, and, and the farming gets pushed out. And it's very sad. And we see this happening all over. Yeah. And you know, interestingly, Chip, and I think you'll really enjoy this interview I just did with Steve Nygren of Serenbe be where I'm living right now, ironically, the farm I started 20 years ago, I'm living across the street from it, it's totally tripping me out. But when I interviewed him, he said this, you know, he had the same theme where he started to, you know, envision a really he and he's got a similar background to you. And if you've ever have you ever met Steve Nygren?
Chip Conley:
No.
Farmer D:
So really briefly, I mean, he started a pleasant peasant restaurant group, which back in the 80s 90s was like the boutique restaurant brand in the country. He's like, considered a maverick in the restaurant, hospitality space, like you. And he kind of retired, similar to you to kind of move out to a beautiful place in the country because he wanted a change of pace and, and development pressure started coming around his farm and little bed and breakfast. And so in a way to protect himself from development, he started to get into development. And the key thing that he did that's so important that I feel like is so relevant to what's going on in pescadero is that he changed the policy for the region, on how development should happen before he did his project because he knew like you that if he's successful, he's only going to accelerate the growth and destruction of the rural character and the things that he fell in love with of why he moved out here. Although this was Georgia, South Georgia, you know, south of Atlanta. Maybe not that much different than making a difference in policy in Mexico. But different but but similar, right? So it's at that level, that was so inspiring to me that he had to go and change the zoning and create the Chattahoochee hill country in order for it to make sense for him to do Serenbe, so that he didn't just further accelerate development and sprawl.
Chip Conley:
How has Serenbe be evolved over time? Is it has it been positive? What's what's been, what and what's the reputation in in Georgia?
Farmer D:
Well, you know, Serenbe has become a national and international model. So people come from all over the world here to see it. It's one of a kind, it was kind of a trendsetter, a pioneering concept for the country. You know, in another, we dig into a lot of this actually, in a couple of recent episodes with Steve and with Greg Ramsey, my partner in planning around what conservation community is, but what what I would say in a short answer to that, you know, it's so funny, because there's a waiting list, they can't build the houses fast enough. And people are coming from all over. Now all these like creatives and entrepreneurs and thought leaders have been attracted to this place. And, you know, it's, it's really, it's blossomed in so many ways. It's beautiful. It's incredible. It's funny I just spent yesterday, well, first of all, just say like, since I was living here, and sort of the farm here, I've mostly come back to visit. And I've never had a chance to come back and live, right, very different when you have a lived experience than when you kind of come and see it and kind of look at it. So my kids are walking to school a block. We just took a beautiful bike ride as a family to the bakery this morning and had a nice little bakery session, I snuck in a work call. And then we all biked over to the playground. And we played on the playground in the woods, and I took another little work call. And then we biked back to the house. Then yesterday, I took a jog through the forest that I used to tromp through, you know, 15 years ago. And I had the most beautiful five mile run through the forests on 14 miles of trails out here. I mean, the quality of life is real. There's a lot of things about Serenbe that are fantastic, inspirational, great models. And there's also some things that I think you know, are always right, there's always room to improve. And so there's some interesting things here that Steve, I think in the community is learning by doing. Yeah, anytime you're a pioneer and leader, you're going to learn some of the hard lessons. Anyway, so you know, in short, it's, it's it's really phenomenal. And it's inspired me honestly, it's kind of re inspired me to see a project that I helped seed so many years ago, and now to be able to live the benefits of it just reinforces how important this work is how much it's needed. You know, I could go on, I mean, there's a lot of things about, you know, "how do we make these kinds of communities more accessible and affordable?" is one of the big challenges and I know with working with with you and Jeff at Baja Sage, that's a big part of your guys goal too is Modern Elder Academy been designed from the beginning to be you know, maybe you could talk a bit about that, you know, accessible to people on a sliding scale.
Chip Conley:
Yeah, you know, it was what we got very quickly during our beta period three years ago is that wisdom is not taught, it's shared. And if it's going to be shared, meaning you're in a cohort for a week long workshop with maybe 16 to 20 other people, wouldn't it be fascinating and maybe inspiring and enriching, if you're with people who are not normally the people you hang out with? So what's been so amazing is we are social enterprise. Over half of our alumni who have come here have been here on for some form of scholarship, in some cases of full scholarship, other cases, a half scholarship, that we fund them. And so that allows us in a cohort to have a firefighter and a physical therapist and a college professor, a grandma, a retired CEO from Silicon Valley, and an investment banker. That's just six different people.
Farmer D:
And a farmer!
Chip Conley:
And a farmer. And we've had 25% of our people have been people of color, who have come and so there's an element that we have helped to create a community that is more representative of the world than is typical for a "Personal Growth Retreat Center". Anybody I spent almost a decade on the board of the Esalen Institute, quite famous Esalen Institute, in Big Sur, California. And you know, I mean maybe four or 5% of their attendees or people who went there were people of color, but and they had a scholarship program as well. But, you know, if you start off on the front end as creating something that isn't considering that and intentional about creating that diversity, you end up with a situation where people who are who looked different act different you know sexual orientation difference they don't feel comfortable there that they feel like a token and so it was it's been interesting to create diversity as a core principle of a midlife wisdom school. you know i'll never forget the time we had a social worker actually from Atlanta Interestingly enough who was 4 foot 11 black woman who just was had so much purpose in their life she was 62 years old, but she had no idea how she would pay for her extra years because she's probably gonna live till 90 or 95 and she just didn't have retirement funds. And she sat next to a guy the first night who was six foot five, so a foot and a half taller, than her white guy from New York who was rich as can be at age 45 and had no purpose in his life but had lots of money so every day they'd go for a walk on the beach, she being the expert on purpose he being the expert on finances and over the course of the week they just became best buddies and that's the kind of stories that we see here all the time.
Farmer D:
I'm curious to dig into this a little bit more because I know there's so much to talk to you about. This idea of diversity and multigenerational you know diversity as well as income and other aspects of diversity. You know when I look at the garden right? Kind of a citizen farmer's philosophy is that like the garden is the model for diversity; a healthy regenerative biodynamic farm and garden is-it's all about diversity and biodiversity and cultural diversity and so i've always seen that as kind of like you know if you look at like biomimicry or biophilia that just makes sense. As a society we've really gotten away from this idea and everybody kind of ends up in their silos and with people like them or you know whether based on wealth or other aspects. So I'm curious also to hear how you've applied this core principle within MEA. How are you starting to think about that in the community context when you're thinking about you know building these wisdom communities and multi generational communities that are diverse and inclusive and accessible?
Chip Conley:
You know so because of the success here in Baja one of our COVID projects, one of our pandemic projects, was to say how do we take this to the United States and create what we're calling MEA Regenerative Community. The focus being regeneration of the soil, just as you know regenerative farming and ranching. Regenerating the soul. Soil soul, based upon what happens at our workshops. Regenerating community and that is the sense of close knit-ness, close knit-ness that's an interesting word, how you feel close knit with your cohort and then more broadly with our MEA alum community. And then regenerating the locale: how do we give back to the locale. So soil, soul, community and locale. In doing that, part of our premise is how do we do that using that same kind of diversity pair of glasses that we're wearing? So our first project you know quite confidentially but i'll put it out there, is in Santa Fe New Mexico. We bought a 2600 acre ranch. It will be a regenerative farm and ranch. It will have an MEA workshop center where they'll be two workshops that can happen simultaneous to each other but they're autonomous in their own spaces. And then of agra hood of about 30 homes and a clubhouse with the farm sort of woven into that. And we are looking at then how do we actually connect that locally. Could we have a farm school as as we're doing down here in Baja? So that we could actually integrate local community members into learning about farming on our campus. Someone said the other day: Chip what you're doing now 60 years after Sun City was created in Arizona, the very first retirement community, is your...Sun City was to 20th century retirement communities what MEA will be to 21st century regenerative communities and i liked that because i'm not this you know we don't want to be Sun City at all. In fact retirement communities are in trouble because nobody wants to live in them anymore in terms of like gen xers or boomers so instead what we're looking at is how is this ethos all about regeneration and wisdom but it's it's cross cultural it's cross generational so there's no 55 plus or 65 plus you know thing where it's just age apartheid. Instead it is people who want to be part of a wisdom community... so that's the first one we're doing there we have a second one in Santa Fe that we're actually in discussions on right now and then we would create a series of satellite regenerative communities in the northern New Mexico area, each with a farm each of the clubhouse each with 40 to 50 homes within that particular community that would allow for us to have a full ecosystem of regenerative communities. So when we bring Brene Brown, to, you know, Santa Fe, to teach workshops with us, all of the people in our various residential communities can come and hear her give a speech. And then we can also introduce our program to the broader community, and especially giving back to programs within the broader community that are focused on diversity. I mean, again, that is a an important part of what we're trying to do here.
Farmer D:
So beautiful, so exciting. I'm so thankful and grateful that you're doing this work, because it's so needed, and feel really honored to be a part of it. So there's a couple other things I want to dig into on that. So I mean, one is I'd love for you to talk a little bit about your, you know, the wisdom at work kind of the the re inspiring versus retiring, kind of the learn, earn and burn, paradigm breaking, you know, approach that you are employing both at NBA and in these communities. So I'd love to just hear you talk a little bit about kind of where that inspiration came from, or kind of were that I know, some of that was seeded at Airbnb. And I'm want to, I'm gonna weave into other things to this question. You are a hospitality, you know, Guru, let's say right, a maverick in the hospitality space. And what I experienced when I went to MEA, I call hospitality transcendent, you know, it was this, it was his hospitality experience. Clearly, everything about it had the all the touches of like really caring about us as guests, and so nurtured and cared for, and, but it was, but it was next level from like a typical hospitality experience, because it was a transformative experience. I mean, there's a transcendent experience. And part of that there's something that kind of goes through the veins of, of this, that is is culture, right. And I know a lot of your work with Airbnb, too. It's about helping build culture. So I want to kind of unpack or dig into a little bit the culture, hospitality pieces, and how you're bringing that through this lens of kind of helping people rethink retirement and rethink kind of purpose.
Chip Conley:
There's a lot there. That's it. Yeah, that's, there's a lot there. So let me just, I'll riff a little bit, and then you can you're welcome to prod me, and push me in a different direction if you want to. So let's start by saying that the life that the way we have historically looked at life in the modern world has been the following: You will learn to you're 20 or 25, you earn till you're 65. And then you retire to die. It's the three stage, like the tyranny of the three stages life. And for those of us who grew up a long time ago, there was a good game board game called the game of life. I don't know, I don't I don't know if the game of life is the same today as it used to be. But basically, you have a car, and you start at one place, and there's a linear path. If it's if it's the same, then...
Farmer D:
Yeah, there's a few little tangents where you could take like the family path or the risk path or the college versus career, but basically, it's it's, yeah, you're moving forward.
Chip Conley:
Yeah. So I can just say that I was, I was always curious about that as a kid saying, "Why is there only one path?" Or you could go to do offshoots, but you learn that you earn and you retire. And then-
Farmer D:
It's all about money by the way.
Chip Conley:
It is all that money. Exactly. And so the last 10 years, I think a lot of there's been a lot of evidence that people want to live differently than that. And the living differently, is about saying, well, maybe you know, and also by way back when Rumi, the famous philosopher poet from 750 years ago, said, life can be summed up in three phases: you're raw, you become cooked, and then you burn, raw cooked burn. And I say raw cooked burn repeat. Because why, why couldn't you at age 40, go back to school and get a master's in something that you always wanted to study? or Why couldn't you retire if you're lucky enough, or maybe at least take a gap year or a sabbatical at age 48, and then come back a couple years later. And now again, this is like middle class to upper class kind of things. If you were, you know, working as a maid in a hotel, it's a hard thing to do. But let me just say there's a lot of the population that that would like to think this way, but is socially defined by the tyranny of the three stage life. So at MEA, we've helped people to sort of say, gosh, you have more options than that. And actually, during COVID, when we had to really shut our workshop program down because of, you know, proper protocols, health protocols, we created something called sabbatical sessions with the premise that people have to come for extended stays. It's all outdoors. And we have lighter and more optional programming. And people want sabbaticals desperately, especially this time, this, you know, given what we're facing with a pandemic. And so what we've noticed is there are more and more people who want to curate their life differently than their parents did. And, and this also includes later in life not wanting to live in a retirement community, you know, with a golf course. And you know, a clubhouse where people get drunk at lunchtime. In fact, you know, our regenerative community, instead of having a golf course at the center, we have a farm at the center. That is like such a fundamental difference of land use. So I think that you know that what we're really talking about here is a sociological shift. And I think that anybody who's 40 or younger looks at me, like, "What are you talking about? That's, that's how I'm gonna live my life". And millennials have been so much more freeform in how they look at their lives. It's led to sometimes resentment from older people who say, you know what, you know, you're not loyal, you're not, you're not linear, you have to pay your dues. It's like, to whom? You know, like, what dues were I I'm paying my dues. I'm paying for all these taxes, I got to pay taxes the rest of my life, because you guys, you messed up the climate, so I'm gonna pay my dues. But I'm not going to live my life the way you want to. But this is what led to the "Ok, Boomer" movement amongst younger people. So long story short, is what we're trying to do is help people to see that self curation of your life make sense and, and programs like designing your life from the Stanford design school have become exceptionally popular. But these resources are so few and far between, for the average person, you know, I mean, yeah, you can go to Stanford and pay a lot of money to go through the Stanford D school to understand how to design your life. And maybe, yes, they have books, and they have workshops now, but there's not as many things for the average person. And so that's what we're trying to do.
Farmer D:
Love it. And I yeah, I think you're so right about, about all of that. And, you know, I just, I feel really lucky, I got a chance to experience it, because I typically wouldn't have, I think it's amazing that you're what you're providing the fact that you're making it accessible. And what I noticed that was really powerful too about it, something that I keep coming back to for myself. It's not an external thing, as much as it is an internal thing that that it comes down to, right. It's like, how we shape our physical reality, kind of design our life. And it's cool, because this podcast is really about reimagining communities. And I think what happens and what the whole Citizen Farmers Podcast philosophy is is that we actually, you know, in growing a garden, we're growing ourselves, you know, and it's kind of like the the growing whole aspect of MEA kind of this growing. And I see that too, like, what I find is a lot of people lost the tools for getting in the mindset and being able to be open to the kinds of things you're talking about, and being able to tap into passion and purpose amidst the the pressures that we're under, from society. And, you know, some of us are more privileged than others and the ability to kind of extract ourselves with some of those pressures. And some of us just, they're much, much heavier. And so maybe if you could talk a little bit about kind of the actual work that you're finding through MEA that what's what's working, what is it about MEA that allows people to make that shift and see the light so to speak for themselves and spark that fire? What do you think it is in the program that's been so effective? Because clearly, it's been extremely effective? I mean, so many people I know that have been through the program have been so moved by it.
Chip Conley:
I think there are three components and this work has been researched by getting Phil Pizzo Dr. Phil Pizzo and Stanford. Purpose, wellness and community. Let me go through them one at a time, our actual doing purpose community and then wellness. And in fact, this is particularly true for people who are later in their career and considering retirement. Retirement, just as an FYI, is fascinating. You think if you were retiring, you'd live longer, but in fact, retiring accelerates your mortality by two years. The evidence is extremely well documented on this, which is interesting. And it's partly because people lose all three of these things. So purpose. Purpose is not just an issue for people in retirement. Feeling a sense of purpose gives you fuel, feeling a sense of purpose, gives you direction makes you feel like you're living your calling, as opposed to just having a job, gives you a sense that there's a reason why you're here on earth. It's the yearning. It is very much a function of our programming here. And so we do really help people to look at, you know, how do they repurpose themselves. I like to call it same seed different soil to use a little bit of farming language and what what does that mean same seed different soil it means that you have built something inside of yourself and then you can actually go and plant yourself somewhere else and help in a different habitat and maybe different landscape be able to create something else over there. Let me use my story at airbnb as a as a quick example: so i was a longtime 24 year veteran ceo and founder of Joie de Vivre boutique hotel company, sold it and then I ended up at airbnb. Now it was a technology company yes it was a hospitality company and travel and that was my background but it was a totally different soil and the average person there was half my age. I was 52 when I joined and average age was 26. So long story short is it was really an unusual habitat compared to what i was used to and i flourished and i was able to flourish by actually getting clear on what i had to offer and how i could repurpose it in a new environment. So that's part of what we teach in my book Wisdom at Work, The Making of a Modern Elder, really speaks to that as well. Okay secondly community. So community is, again all three of these are relevant across all age ranges but it's particularly relevant for people in later later career or when they're retiring. You lose purpose when you actually leave your job you lose community when you leave your job because actually for many of us we spend more time more waking hours with the people we work with and we do with anybody else. So when you leave that that that can be a shock to the system. And even beyond that let's just notice that you know for 20 years now there's been lots and lots and lots of research showing that people feel more lonely and alienated than they used to. The social bonds people had with the club or with you know church attendance on sundays or going to temple or mosque. These are you know people are doing less of that and so there's a sense that people feel a bit disconnected and and so community is making a comeback. And then there's COVID overlay that is like wow people want community more than ever. So this is part of what we provide. We do it during the course of a week's workshop but then these many of these cohorts we've had 50 cohorts so far they go off and they stay in touch.
Farmer D:
My cohort still does a weekly zoom call. Incredible.
Chip Conley:
Yeah! So this is years later i mean like this is happening. So and then there's the broader MEA community and there's 23 regional chapters now and our most active chapter is based in australia. They have a really active chapter. So so there's that. So community is big. And then finally wellness and this is the part that when it comes to retirement that's fascinating. You would think that when someone retires they would be healthier because they have more time to work out go play golf tennis whatever. In fact the opposite happens because they lose discipline and structure work gave them discipline structure and therefore when you hear the statistics about how many hours a week people in America watch tv, for people retired it's twice the average for the population. And that just means that people become couch potatoes and therefore wellness is gone. Now that's just the retired people but the rest of us also know that wellness is important. Wellness is not just about going and working out it's also what you put in your body and so we have some of what we focus on is you know healthy food. Some of what we focus on is mindfulness that's a form of wellness. But we also focus on social wellness we tend to look at personal wellness as being an endeavor that's very individualistic, but in fact so much of our wellness comes from that sense of community and that's where the social wellness kicks in we help people to see that they don't have to do wellness alone.
Farmer D:
Powerful so it sounds like you're applying these principles of creating purpose based wellness communities that are going to be places where people can get their their dose of all of these things to ensure that they are living their best lives.
Chip Conley:
I love purpose based wellness communities.
Farmer D:
That's my gift for you taking the time today. You can have that.
Chip Conley:
Thank you purpose based wellness communities I like that.
Farmer D:
Let's do it! and we need to build a bunch of them because there's a lot of people that need this.
Chip Conley:
That's very true.
Farmer D:
Wow well that's that's amazing Chip and i guess um maybe to wrap up i'd love for you to share a little bit more about how people can connect with MEA, your blog, books. Where do people go to learn more about what you're doing and get involved?
Chip Conley:
Well first of all MEA is just modernelderacademy.com and you can see our website and see what we have going on there including our MEA online program which starts to the general population in later February. We have my website is chipconley.com that's c-o-n-l-e-y and you can go there. I have a blog, there's a daily blog that you know Farmer D actually offered a guest post a few months ago and the daily blog is called Wisdom Well. it's actually on the modern elder academy website.
Farmer D:
You've been prolific on that front. Awesome and such good stuff.
Chip Conley:
Yeah it's a great practice for me. I mean i tend to i tend to write 10 in a day and then I store them up and you know then dispense them, but you know yeah but it's it's it's fun it's fun it's it allows me to sort of be attentive. You know i think one of the greatest gifts in life as we get older is we become first class noticers. And as you become a first class noticer you are a little bit more observant of not just what's going on inside of you but what's going on around the people around you. You're able to be emotionally intelligent enough to sort of see what's going on with them. And then to be able to notice the field, the broader population. So that's what i do i begin by being a first class noticer it gives me the good ingredients to allow me to write a daily blog.
Farmer D:
Chip you're such an inspiration man and such a great mentor and friend and collaborator . Ifeel really really fortunate to be able to do this work with you and continue to learn from and be inspired by you and I really appreciate you spending some time with me on this episode. It's been fun.
Chip Conley:
Thank you D I mean it's I love the work you do in the world. I'm excited by the fact that we can continue to collaborate and I can't wait to see the kids one of these days.
Farmer D:
I know we have to make another trip down down to baja soon. Come see you.
Chip Conley:
Love that love that.
Farmer D:
I want to come see the farm. I've been following some of the photos and videos that can't wait to come see the and I'm going to do an interview with with with Jeff and dig into Baja Sage and regenerative wisdom communities more so we can look forward to that in a future episode.
Chip Conley:
Beautiful.
Farmer D:
I appreciate you Chip. Be well.
Chip Conley:
Thanks guys!